tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post2399703037654796043..comments2024-03-28T06:33:02.061-04:00Comments on Encyclopedia of American Loons: #166: Ken HamG.D.http://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-23407616064475335272016-01-13T17:01:24.563-05:002016-01-13T17:01:24.563-05:00I did not call you a liar. I suggest that you'...I did not call you a liar. I suggest that you're a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Your use of Colin Patterson sort of bolsters that suggestion. For the record: Patterson is not a representative of contemporary evolutionary biology (he died twenty years ago, and was during his lifetime hardly central to evolutionary research). Even so, creationists continue to quote-mine him: Patterson was pretty clear that he considered evolution pretty much settled science (and not a matter of faith) supported by mountains of evidence. Some of his comments (including the ones you cite) were used by creationists even during his lifetime as evidence of the absence of transitional forms in the fossil record - something Patterson emphatically did not intend to suggest. In the second edition of Evolution (1999), he explained how his remarks had been taken out of context:<br /><br />"Because creationists lack scientific research to support such theories as a young earth ... a world-wide flood ... or separate ancestry for humans and apes, their common tactic is to attack evolution by hunting out debate or dissent among evolutionary biologists. ... I learned that one should think carefully about candour in argument (in publications, lectures, or correspondence) in case one was furnishing creationist campaigners with ammunition in the form of 'quotable quotes', often taken out of context."<br /><br />In short, if you had actually *read* Patterson in anything resembling an intellectually honest way, you would not have taken him to suggest that there is scant evidence for evolution or that it is somehow a faith-based dogma. That's why I don't think you've actually read Patterson's book (not that it would be anything remotely resembling cutting-edge research in evolutionary biology even if you did): You've read some creationist's misrepresentation of him.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-84601579471822407512016-01-13T12:53:52.671-05:002016-01-13T12:53:52.671-05:00So now I am not only a fool, but a liar as well. T...So now I am not only a fool, but a liar as well. Thank you for that. And you continue to hearken back to my initial statement, which was meant to be a simple overview for the sake of making a science-detached observation. Not a proof of scientific knowledge. Had I done so, you would still be reading. Some of your statements reminded me of a series of quotes that I ran across in the back of a copy of the works of Dr. Colin Patterson, Senior Palaeontologist; British Museum of Natural History, London. <br /><br />"Well, we're back to the question I've been putting to people, 'Is there one thing you can tell me about evolution?' And the absence of an answer seems to suggest that it is true, evolution does not convey any knowledge, or if so, I haven't yet heard it."<br /><br />"Now I think many people in this room would acknowledge that during the last few years, if you had thought about it at all, you've experienced a shift from evolution as knowledge to evolution as faith. I know that's true of me, and I think it's true of a good many of you in here."<br /><br />"So that's my first theme. That evolution and creationism seem to be showing remarkable parallels. They are increasingly hard to tell apart. And the second theme is that evolution not only conveys no knowledge, but seems somehow to convey anti-knowledge, apparent knowledge which is actually harmful to systematics." <br /><br />May I inform you that this book that I possess is an all-inclusive study of his work, including his best selling title "Evolution," which is most definitely in favour of the theory. And this isn't the only statement of its kind. There are hundreds, if not thousands of statements by leading evolutionists other than Dr. Patterson equating the science of evolution to faith. With that I conclude my conversation with you, kind sir.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01476258871851603121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-81140985546796736132016-01-13T03:24:37.982-05:002016-01-13T03:24:37.982-05:00No one who characterizes evolution with "that...No one who characterizes evolution with "that the universe came into being by process of evolution throughout billions of years" has made any serious study of the topic, and no one who uses the phrase "science proof" has an even cursory understanding of how science and scientific investigations work (nor does anyone who thinks evolution has anything to do with faith). That you can rattle off a term like "punctuated equilibrium" really isn't going to affect that conclusion.<br /><br />You haven't studied evolution at all. At best, you have read a couple of creationist distortions of the topic. "Tolerance" and "open-mindedness" doesn't mean that one has to take claims that have already been refuted a thousand times and misconceptions that have already been corrected a thousand times seriously, and Ken Ham and his fellow young-earth creationists have got nothing else (oh, yes - I have looked).G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-72361886309773962892016-01-12T14:28:17.963-05:002016-01-12T14:28:17.963-05:00As it is obvious that reasoning with such a person...As it is obvious that reasoning with such a person as yourself would be utterly pointless, I won't continue past this reply. But in defence of my own character, which you have again brutally attacked, I will say this. I am not ignorant of the topics on which I speak. I have at length studied both theories (about ten years), and have written numerous papers discussing the scientific evidence for and against each of them. I have also read extensively on both theories, and if evolution (boiled down to its foundation, and not going into detail with such factors as punctuated equilibrium etc. as that would take all day) isn't a process of macro and micro genetic mutations over millions of generations, sir, I guess I must be as ignorant as you say. But it seems to me if you had, with an open mind, studied both theories in depth and with appreciation for the brilliant minds in favour of each, you might not be so sure of yourself and the ways in which you slander those opposing you. In conclusion, every man is entitled to his own opinions, but noticing that the world view you have chosen preaches tolerance and acceptance of those different from yourself, maybe you should listen.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01476258871851603121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-45914210570947523672016-01-12T02:54:34.538-05:002016-01-12T02:54:34.538-05:00And it seems to me you would have made less of a f...And it seems to me you would have made less of a fool of yourself if you had bothered to acquire even a minimal understanding of the ideas you try to talk about. "the other the faith that the universe came into being by process of evolution throughout billions of years" is garbled nonsense that has no likeness to what the theory of evolution actually claims. It would also have helped if you had avoided displaying such amazing lack of understanding of what science is and how scientific investigations and evidence actually work ("science proof" is another nonsense phrase). The theory of evolution is supported by mountains of evidence; 7-day creationism is a thoroughly falsified hypothesis. Faith has nothing to do with it, unless you refer to the fact that many people choose to ignore the scientific evidence for evolution and the evidence falsifying the 7-day creation hypothesis due to faith.<br /><br />I am not trolling "the internet looking for individuals to slam, simply because they believe differently than yourself." I am exposing people who are dangerously wrong about reality and displaying hopeless lack of critical thinking skills but who are nevertheless in positions of power and influence. Such people are dangerous. G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-57098897385568894172016-01-11T22:33:25.051-05:002016-01-11T22:33:25.051-05:00It seems to me as if you ought to find something b...It seems to me as if you ought to find something better to do with your time than troll the internet looking for individuals to slam, simply because they believe differently than yourself. Neither evolution nor creationism can be proven by science, although the latter has substantially more solid evidence in its favour. Both beliefs are faith based. It is a truth undeniable. One is faith that the universe was created by an intelligent Being in seven days, the other the faith that the universe came into being by process of evolution throughout billions of years. Either way, it is faith, not science proof. You, sir, have proven yourself the moron by being so harsh and close minded.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01476258871851603121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-88238410752591733902014-03-08T23:42:59.799-05:002014-03-08T23:42:59.799-05:00At present it looks like the Ark Encounter project...At present it looks like the Ark Encounter project is going ahead; I recommend heading over to The Panda's Thumb or The Sensuous Curmudgeon for more details. Meanwhile, <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/10/18/a-shame/" rel="nofollow">This</a> is quite a shame. <br /><br />Apart from that, AiG recently <a href="http://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2013/12/27/ken-ham-20-years-of-imaginary-glory/" rel="nofollow">turned 20</a>. The world would have been such a better place if the people involved had spent their resources and efforts on something worthwhile instead. <br /><br /><a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2014/01/14/ken-ham-hates-the-enemy-within/" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is Ham taking on religious critics of young earth creationism.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-2060719757840267672013-09-30T15:23:53.933-04:002013-09-30T15:23:53.933-04:00No, Ken. Dragons aren't real. And dinosaurs we...No, Ken. <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/09/06/dragons-arent-real/" rel="nofollow">Dragons aren't real</a>. And <a href="http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/05/creationist-radio-ad-says-dinosaurs-were-on-noahs-ark/" rel="nofollow">dinosaurs weren't on the Ark</a>, either.<br /><br />Now, visitors appear to have failed his theme park recently, and to remedy the situation they have <a href="https://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/zip-line-evangelism-creation-museum-opens-non-religious-exhibits-to-expand" rel="nofollow">recently opened</a> an allegedly non-religious exhibit to pull in ... well, you can see for yourself how appealing it is to non-fundies.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-76733694519024983692013-07-25T14:26:58.916-04:002013-07-25T14:26:58.916-04:00On the Creation museum's new feature: dragons....<a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/06/04/dragons/" rel="nofollow">On the Creation museum's new feature: dragons</a>. Damn scientists.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-3653229566350562972013-06-28T18:56:45.977-04:002013-06-28T18:56:45.977-04:00I agree with EriK that It'd be great if you...I agree with EriK that It'd be great if you'd link to sources of further information with less obvious bias. I enjoy your site, but when looking for context and clarification I usually google or go to Wikipedia instead of using the links you provide. Rationalwiki has such an obvious bias which, although agreeable, comes across more as sarcasm than objective information.Midevil Gurlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16605274470263259442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-2425278133544957052013-05-15T19:10:14.270-04:002013-05-15T19:10:14.270-04:00Ham's complaints about intolerant atheists vic...Ham's <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/05/03/intolerant-atheists-viciously-attack-christian-school/" rel="nofollow">complaints</a> about intolerant atheists viciously attacking Christian schools.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-76147489047710009982013-04-22T15:42:38.344-04:002013-04-22T15:42:38.344-04:00Ken Ham is dissatisfied with Robert Jeffress. Hila...Ken Ham is <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2013/03/14/wingnut-on-wingnut-crime-ham-vs-jeffress/" rel="nofollow">dissatisfied with Robert Jeffress</a>. Hilarity ensues, or would have if these two monsters weren't so scary.<br /><br /><a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/04/22/happy-eliminating-all-references-to-him-day/" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is Ham weighing in on Earth Day.<br />G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-74637083595110396832013-02-16T14:24:01.504-05:002013-02-16T14:24:01.504-05:00On the mysterious origins of a persistent creation...<a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/01/31/the-mysterious-origins-of-a-creationist-myth/" rel="nofollow">On the mysterious origins</a> of a persistent creationist myth.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-17898131674289691472013-01-30T13:03:48.825-05:002013-01-30T13:03:48.825-05:00Ham complaints that telling the truth is brainwash...Ham <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2013/01/24/she-brainwashed-me-with-science/" rel="nofollow">complaints that telling the truth is brainwashing kids with reality</a>. <br /><br />And <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/01/25/the-present-is-the-past-the-past-is-the-present/" rel="nofollow">here</a> he shows, once again, that his lack of understanding of science is complete.<br />G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-13677138868530110582012-12-07T09:47:41.493-05:002012-12-07T09:47:41.493-05:00Ham visits Sea World in Australia and
doesn’t lik...Ham visits Sea World in Australia and <br /><a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/04/feathers-on-dinosaurs-are-unbiblical/" rel="nofollow">doesn’t like it</a>. <br /><br />He has also expressed his anger, recently, at <a href="http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2012/06/338-pat-robertson.html" rel="nofollow">Pat Robertson</a> for coming out as an old-earth rather than young-earth creationist. Predictably, Ham <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2012/12/05/wingnut-on-wingnut-crime-robertson-vs-ham/" rel="nofollow">is delightfully and incoherently moronic about the issue</a>.<br />G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-73415009880182651372012-12-01T15:23:16.671-05:002012-12-01T15:23:16.671-05:00And here is Ham getting it wrong. Again.And <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/11/29/hammy-gets-it-wrong-again/" rel="nofollow">here</a> is Ham getting it wrong. Again.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-74433349128755505132012-11-27T18:58:16.346-05:002012-11-27T18:58:16.346-05:00More breath-taking lack of self-awareness from Ken...More <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2012/11/22/bryan-fischer-award-nominee-ken-ham/" rel="nofollow">breath-taking lack of self-awareness from Ken Ham</a>. You weren't surprised, were you?G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-26128622555454476002012-05-25T15:50:15.189-04:002012-05-25T15:50:15.189-04:00You can see Ken Ham attempting to explain why evol...You can see Ken Ham attempting to explain why evolution and same-sex marriage are two sides of the same coin <a href="http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ken-ham-explains-how-theory-evolution-leads-same-sex-marriage" rel="nofollow">here</a>.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-83252797456832352502012-03-21T18:25:47.071-04:002012-03-21T18:25:47.071-04:00The lack of self-awareness yield rather funny resu...The <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/03/21/biblical-morality-again/" rel="nofollow">lack of self-awareness</a> yield rather funny results on occasion.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-33233707728523298272012-03-19T19:36:01.474-04:002012-03-19T19:36:01.474-04:00Here is an overall all-too-sympathetic review of o...<a href="http://fatlip.leoweekly.com/2012/03/19/louisville-zoo-shaking-its-fist-at-god-with-new-saddle-less-dinosaur-exhibit/" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is an overall all-too-sympathetic review of one of Ken Ham's scientific treatises.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-29457272568468082702012-02-12T17:29:07.727-05:002012-02-12T17:29:07.727-05:00Oh what an adorable fellow Ken Ham is.Oh what an <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/02/12/ken-ham-is-such-a-pig/" rel="nofollow">adorable fellow</a> Ken Ham is.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-84652203064683908882012-01-16T22:54:16.469-05:002012-01-16T22:54:16.469-05:00Here's Ken Ham's attempt to show that his ...<a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/01/16/a-little-comparative-religion-would-do-ken-ham-a-world-of-good/" rel="nofollow">Here's</a> Ken Ham's attempt to show that his is the only correct religion and all others are false.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-41435680200481239562011-06-09T08:19:07.218-04:002011-06-09T08:19:07.218-04:00Now, this is an interesting development.Now, <a href="http://www.theatermania.com/connecticut/news/06-2011/mark-brokaw-manu-narayan-sally-wilfert-et-al-set-f_37932.html" rel="nofollow">this</a> is an interesting development.G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-60577398291450817922011-03-24T21:09:09.333-04:002011-03-24T21:09:09.333-04:00"I just think it'd help your case"
..."I just think it'd help your case"<br /><br />Depends on what you think the purpose of the blog is. We have no hopes of converting the already lunatic. The purpose, as we conceive it, is to make people aware of these people; the links are supposed to provide background material on them (it is in the links that you'll find actual discussion of the various claims). The purpose is hence to provide a resource for ordinary, rational people who are actually able to recognize lunacy, denialism and conspiracy theories for what they are.<br /><br />"How about a Scientific American link, or a PNAS article?"<br /><br />Insofar as they exist. Scientific American, for instance, rarely deal with the various antics of the delusional. Scienceblogs, rationalwiki and skeptic's dictionary, among others, do.<br /><br />"considering that people often seem to get upset at Creationists when they link to answersingenesis, for example"<br /><br />Yes, but there is a relevant difference. Answersingenesis is a pile of lunacy. Scienceblogs and rationalwiki are generally trustworthy sources on these things, on the other hand (these resources are, for one, written by people who actually know what they are talking about and who possess critical thinking skills). I assume that said rational people recognize that.<br /><br />(appears that blogspot doesn't recognize the blockquote tag)G.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08875360501107597863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414946164942126209.post-25601294463650805702011-03-21T14:58:08.318-04:002011-03-21T14:58:08.318-04:00Can you quote anything but 'rationalwiki,'...Can you quote anything but 'rationalwiki,' 'scienceblogs,' and sites with 3-letter addresses?<br /><br />I just think it'd help your case, considering that people often seem to get upset at Creationists when they link to answersingenesis, for example. How about a Scientific American link, or a PNAS article? <br /><br />Just some food for thought.EriKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04149923261251332685noreply@blogger.com